Loved Ones Must Pick up the Pieces When Unvaccinated Succumb to Covid-19

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The news landscape is littered these days with anti-vaccine voices who’ve made quite a name for themselves “standing up for freedom,” only to succumb from the disease they thought was overblown, or in some cases, a hoax. 

I’ve been finding lately that my empathy level has all but vanished for these folks. Now entering the third year of this pandemic, my patience level has reached the breaking point. But then I began to think not about the individuals who refused the vaccine but the bevy of family and friends that they indeed have left behind. 

Was the defiance worth it? Was the notoriety of being a “spokesperson for thousands, even millions, of Americans,” as 22-year Washington state trooper Robert LaMay said on Fox “News” back in October,  worth losing your life over? 

We will never know, of course, because LaMay recently lost his battle with Covid-19. He said those words on The Laura Ingraham show, who praised LaMay and wondered whether he had awakened the “sleeping giant,” referring to those who were pondering defying vaccine mandates as LaMay had done. He ultimately resigned from his job, telling Governor Jay Inslee to “kiss his ass” on his last day, which was shared by thousands on social media.  

Fox hasn’t had the decency to acknowledge LaMay’s death as of this writing. They exploited him for the wrong reasons, only to toss him aside like a sacrificial lamb. They’ve done the exact thing many times throughout this pandemic to the thousands who’ve perished in the same manner — many because of the reckless and reprehensible disinformation campaign from that same media outlet. 

Making matters worse is that Fox itself considers Covid-19 serious, having implemented their vaccination and daily testing requirements for all employees. Yes, that includes Ingraham, Sean Hannity, and Tucker Carlson. I suppose all of it is in the name of pandering to viewers for ratings. The shameless hypocrisy knows no bounds with that network. 

Again, though, LaMay made his choice. And now his family and friends will have to deal with the consequence. I can only imagine what he might have been feeling as he took the last breaths of his life. 

Another person who made the same choice was rock superstar Meat Loaf, who lost his life to Covid-19 in January. While his vaccine status was unknown, he had recently begun to speak out against vaccine mandates, lockdowns, and wearing masks on planes. 

In an interview with The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last August, he responded to the interviewer who talked about being controlled by everybody. “Yeah, I know,” he said. “But not me. If I die, I die, but I’m not going to be controlled.” 

It’s a pretty safe bet that he wasn’t vaccinated, but who knows for sure? The bottom line is that Meat Loaf decided his freedom from control of “the man” was more than worth dying for. Judging by the heartfelt issued from his family posted to Facebook after his death, they might disagree. 

While the two cases above are both high-profile media stories, they’re most certainly not isolated incidents, as we see those types of tragedies playing out daily throughout America and the rest of the world. My own family is no exception. 

I found out yesterday that a long-time family friend had died of Covid-19. I’d only met him once but had heard nothing but wonderful things about him before our meeting, which occurred on Christmas Eve, 2016, at my sister’s house in Akron, Ohio.

It was a tough time for us back then. I visited because my mother’s health had deteriorated, and she was placed in a nursing home. The mood was anything but celebratory, but we made the best of a sad situation. 

The family friend arrived later in the evening, a bottle of Crown Royal by his side.  We proceeded to have a wonderful visit with him, and I was impressed with his charm and outgoing nature. He played the piano, sang some songs, and we both discussed our mutual admiration of Bruce Springsteen. I believe he even played the opening few bars of “Growing Up,” a long-time favorite of mine. 

My two hours with him left a positive impression on me. He made the evening a pleasurable one, especially considering the circumstances surrounding my mother’s condition. And for that, I will forever be grateful. 

I was highly disappointed when I discovered the circumstances surrounding his bout with Covid-19. It turns out that he was not vaccinated. And not only that, he had lied about it weeks earlier before visiting family at an annual California beach house vacation, which was attended by some elderly and immune-compromised family members. 

Putting his selfishness and the ensuing anger amongst family members aside,  they’re all completely devastated by his death. He was beloved by so many and will be sorely missed. 

I asked my sister whether she knew of his political leanings, but she wasn’t sure. The night I met him, politics never entered the conversation. Anti-vaccine voices exist on all sides of the political spectrum, although most seem to come from those on the right. In the end, it does not matter. As did Meat Loaf, Officer LaMay, and thousands of others, he made his choice. 

In the last days of his life, the family friend lay prone, in his hospital bed, for up to 16 hours a day, on a ventilator. His loved ones were told it was only a matter of time. It all could have been avoided — just as it could have been for so many more just like him. 

 Admittedly, I have mixed feelings about my family friend because I met him and liked him. But his actions, especially telling others he was vaccinated, reveal a selfish nature that is, I think,  shared by most the folks who do not get the shots. 

Of course, it could also be from listening to the anti-vaccination crazies on TV and radio. Surely that must also be part of the conversation. Where and whom we get information from is a matter of life and death these days. 

Perhaps being a hero to the right-wing was something Officer LaMay could take to his grave as a badge of honor. In a post to his Facebook account from November 18, he wrote: 

“Lots of speaking engagements for December. I’ll be around the state and being asked to travel out of state as well. Colorado, Oregon, you might see me soon. The platform is simple FREEDOM!!!! Fight now or lose it.”

Unfortunately, while he may have fought successfully for his “freedom,” he lost his life in the process. And now, his family and friends are left picking up the pieces. 

If there were a way, in a spiritual sense,  to get these vaccine deniers and defiers in a room together in some way, to show them what their actions have done to the loved ones and friends in their lives, I would certainly do so. And then I’d proceed to ask them one question:

Was it all worth it? 

172 comments

  1. Risking your own life is on thing. But forcing someone else to unknowingly risk theirs is another thing totally. It speaks of supreme arrogance and selfishness to carry a terrible virus to places where there are elderly people with underlying health problems.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. It sure does David. And that’s the most troubling aspect from my family perspective. To not even have the decency to tell the truth speaks volumes. Just think how often this happens every day now.

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      1. Jeff- Let me start by saying I am the person responsible for organizing the NorCal event refererred to in your post. It was my cousin who recently succumbed to Covid.

        While I am sympathetic, if not in total agreement with 95% of your post, I would like to offer a comment from my perspective.
        Our event was held under Santa Cruz County, CA Covid Regulations, arguably the strictest in the country.
        The mandate at the time was that masks were required indoors only, vaxxed or unvaxxed. Our event is predominanty outside until it is time to eat, when probably 85% choose to dine indoors. This information was provided to all of the guests (100+/-). I was vaxxed w/ booster, and have a hard time understanding why others choose not to do so.
        Pardon me for the deep dive ,but I just wanted everyone to be clear on the details of the situation.

        I knew from direct discussion with my cousin that he was NOT VAXXED. Incredibly, from my Left Coast frame of reference, not only was he not vaxxed, but he actually worked for a school district as a bus driver that does not require employees, teachers or children to be vaxxed. I’m guessing that bus could very well have been the source of his infection.

        While his and my politics were 180 degree diametrically opposed, we rarely discussed it and when we did, only superficially. We subverted this aspect of our relationship in order to preserve the familial relationship. I was
        astounded that other members of my family weren’t aware of his true status. Admittedly, I just assumed that he was as candid with them as he was with me. I never discussed it with anyone other than my wife.

        I certainly understand the sense of betrayal felt by others that experienced otherwise, admittedly he either, committed a sin of commission or omission and I am not excusing either. He was an incredibly gerous and caring individual. However, looking back his candor with me may have stemmed from a sense of feeling safe to be honest and not necessarily judged. I’m only guessing that with others, he just told them or let them believe what they wanted to hear, perhaps in an attempt to avoid judgement, divisive discussion etc.

        Either way, while it may be seen as selfish behavior, he certainly was not a selfish person.
        Finally, I believe that, both, Blue and Red are better served with real dialogue rather than manning our barricades as the latter may very well lead to civil war.

        Thank you for your indulgence and i apologize for the length of the ramble.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. No apologies necessary Frank. I really appreciate the additional clarification of what really went down. The whole thing is just so tragic. And, avoidable. My sister kind of filled me in on his political leanings, or lack thereof. In other words, he seemed to do as you intimate, which was to avoid confrontation with fellow family members. Go along to get along, I suppose.
        Still, the idea that he was a bus driver, and that there were no mandates of the sort, drives me absolutely crazy. And it’s why this pandemic continues to be around and will be for a long time.
        That said, my sincere condolences for the passing of your cousin. As I said in my post, I only met him the one time, and I really liked him. Again, the fact it could have been avoided makes it that much worse.
        Please stay safe, and I wish nothing but the best for your family. Thank you for reading my post and contributing to the discourse Frank. I really appreciate it. Maybe our paths will cross again someday, and we can drink some wine and have a good time. Take care!!

        Liked by 2 people

  2. Like you, my friend, I have lost all patience with the anti-vaxxers, even those in my family. It isn’t so much that they are risking their own lives … that is certainly their choice … but that they are risking the lives of everyone they come into contact with, including their own grandparents, children, grandchildren, neighbors, co-workers, and the average Joe they see at the grocery store. It is the height of selfishness and their “freedom” should not supersede our lives! We could have been Covid-free today were it not for the stubborn selfishness of these loons! Sigh.

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    1. Indeed Jill. It did not have to be this bad. It shows the arrogance and selfishness of human beings. And we’ve got a plethora of them in America. I’m disgusted.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. 🤷 Oh well, rag … I don’t much care what you ‘take kindly’ to or don’t. When people make that decision “for themselves” they are also putting the rest of us at risk, so … yeah, I’ve got a right and a reason to be angry.

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      2. Tsk … Tsk, Jill You took the bait. This guy will NOT let go of this topic. I suppose we should all feel sorry for him because apparently, he has nothing else to do with his time except rant against the vaccines. Sad.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. Nan, unless and until Jeff asks me to stop commenting on his blog, I really don’t care if my comments rub you the wrong way, His blog, his rules.

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      4. It’s not that your comments “rub me the wrong way” … it’s that you’re like a dog with a bone. You’ve expressed your view again and again and again on several different blogs. Those of us that are regular visitors “got the picture” waaaay back when.

        Yes, you’re correct. It’s Jeff’s blog. But he’s a polite guy and so he’s asked you nicely –and even given you a warning– to back off.

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Nan, a lot of talking heads in the media beat the proverbial dead horse regarding their expressing derisive and misinformed and disinformed drivel about the therapeutics. The therapeutics predate the vaccines by many years. Look up the history of Monoclonal antibodies, Hydroxychloriquine, Artemisinin, Budesonide, Ivermectin and so on. They work.

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  3. People think, that, they’re, exerxising the right to choose either to get vaccinated or not, that, it’s, something personal, maybe, due to the reports of cases of death caused by the vaccines, not realizing, that, by not getting vaccinated, they’re, putting themselves, as well the ones they love, in danger of, exposure and, contraction, it’s just, too, selfish.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Agreed. 100%. It’s up to individuals to find the truth. If they choose to only listen to those they agree with-and not data-driven science-well, that’s precisely why we are where we are. Pathetic

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  4. I am so angry that even healthcare workers are refusing to be vaccinated; refusing to protect those patients who are most vulnerable. I stand in unity with hospitals who chose to terminate their employment. After 40+ years in healthcare I no longer feel the empathy I once may have had for those who die choosing not to be vaccinated. Coming from a medical family, I thank God all are intelligent enough to be vaccinated and continue to stress the importance of same. I recently saw a wedding invitation that had engraved “if you have not been vaccinated, please attend in spirit only”. Speaks loudly to me!

    Liked by 3 people

    1. I love that invitation Sherri! I would do the same if I was in the same position. You, more than most, get it, because of your decades in health care. Perhaps that’s the worst part of all of this-the fact that so many of the anti-vaxxers couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the health care workers. They are the ones who have borne the brunt of this disaster. Shame on them for their selfish arrogance

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  5. Almost every day we see a news story of another prominent anti-vaxxer dying from COVID-related issues and still the hard-core kooks refuse to back down.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Haven’t you figured it out by now? These folk are impervious to the virus! Vaccines? Pshaw! Masks? Pshaw! Stay out of crowds? Pshaw! The fact someone dies? So sad. Too bad.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. There is another side to the coin of Freedom.
    It is Responsibility.
    And Freedom. Do you know who ensures your Freedom? It is if you are fortunate enough to live within a state system that has democracy? (Yes, yes I know why can argue over the meaning of the word. Mature adults will know what I mean though). And that state protects you in varying ways, which you wouldn’t get on your sweet lil’ lonesome.
    And for that gift. It is your responsibility to ensure you do your best for your fellow citizens in times of trouble and trial. Not to go off in a huff ‘cas you don’t like the game.

    Anyway, none of this anit-vaxx hoo-hah is about Freedom. That’s a mask to cover up a neurotic satisfaction that be you Right of Left you think you know better than folk who have been studying a problem for years

    I’ll stop now, my rant warning light is starting to blink.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Jeff, it truly saddens me when people place themselves and loved ones in danger for some stance that sounded good at the time. If these folks had kids going to college or elementary school, they would have to make sure their kids’ vaccines cards are up to date. How many loved ones must we lose, especially since we are well over 800,000 now in just America? With freedom comes responsibility. Keith

    Liked by 1 person

    1. That’s so true Keith. To live in a society you do have a responsibility to your fellow human beings. But too often these days, that responsibility flies out the window. All for their own personal selfishness and greed. Or whatever political views they may have. It’s such a sad commentary of where we are as a country.

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      1. Nan, drop the sarcasm. It is childish. “My body, my choice” is the only reasoning required to decline the vaccines. I am not saying anything about you, however, while it is true that there is a significant level of hypocrisy in how the argument is made, why is it acceptable to rationalize the murder of the unborn under the guise of “my body, my choice” and yet say that “my body, my choice” does not apply to any other medical matters? You also clearly did not get the memo that vaccinated people, whether they realize it or not, can and do shed spike proteins.

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      2. Thanks so much for the lesson is social mores. I’ll try to do better.

        And as for your argument? You should know by now (after posting your personal stance innumerable times) that not everyone agrees. In fact, several million people don’t.

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      3. Nan, if you got the vaccine, good for you. If any law enforcement officers or government officials try to beat down my door and force the issue, I will fight to the bitter end. “My body, my choice” is something I will take the whole 9 yards.

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    1. I realize that Ragnar. You’re a libertarian kind of guy. At least that’s my take. I just believe that you’re “my body-my choice” argument falls apart because when it comes to a virus that puts people at risk-especially those who are old and/or immune-compromised, the government has a right to act unilaterally in order to protect the public. Not only that, but the fact that hospitals would be massively overrun with patients were we not to act, makes mitigation a necessity.

      Multiple Vaccines are mandated for newborns and have been for longer than I can remember. Why is THIS particular vaccine not seen in the same way? It’s been politicized beyond imagination. Yes, it was rushed onto the scene. But now we have billions around the world who’ve gotten the shot, and surely you will agree that they are safe, right?

      Sorry, but a woman deciding to end a pregnancy does nothing to public health. It does nothing to me and it does nothing to you. You may be appalled by it, and that’s your right to feel that way. But to use it as an argument for you or anyone else not getting a vaccine? It’s preposterous, quite frankly.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Brookingslib, I am just not interested in playing the equivalent of Russian Roulette with my health by taking a purely experimental and untested vaccine. Due to my having Epilepsy, I am not going to risk taking a vaccine that could screw around with my brain. Cardiac arrest, Bell’s palsy, paralysis in some cases, death in other cases, is none to appealing to me.

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      2. I’m sorry to hear about your Epilepsy Ragnar. I understand why you might have reservations about taking the vaccine. I would do research as well if I were you. And I do know there are instances where doctors recommend against taking the shots because of various conditions that may exist in individuals. Perhaps your condition is one of them? It’s not my purview to judge you on that. So, respectfully, my complaints are not against people like yourself who have underlying conditions. They are with the people who won’t do it because of politics and ridiculous misinformation spewed by the likes of Trump, Joe Rogan, and others. And, I disagree with the “experimental” and “untested” part of your argument. We’ve got plenty of data showing the efficacy and safety. I’ve said enough Ragnar. Take care

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Jeff, I mean no disrespect with what I say, however, I would put more stock in what people like Robert W. Malone, Rashid Buttar, Simone Gold, Pierre Kory Peter A. McCullough, Stella Immanuel, Sherri Tenpenny and Judy Mikovitz have to say than Anthony Fauci. Why? Because they are consistent and Anthony Fauci keeps shifting the goalposts.

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      4. Brookingslib, of course you are left speechless, which is no surprise due to the fact that Anthony Fauci kept spewing the same lies again and again and hoping that people like you, Nan and many other people would believe it.

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      5. Anthony Fauci is a national treasure who’s dedicated his life to saving lives. Tenpenny is a two-bit crackpot quack who spews conspiracy theories and lies. Fauci, btw, has changed his statements as the facts and data change. Do you know what a novel virus is Ragnar? That’s right, we’ve never seen it before. We were learning on the fly, especially with different variants and the like. But go ahead, believe the quacks and crackpots. Next thing, I suppose you’ll tell me that looney tunes Scott Atlas, who Trump picked as his main Covid adviser, was a genius. I’m saddened by your lack of clarity and common sense on this issue. Have a good day

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Brookingslib, if I was presented with the option of the vaccine or the therapeutics, I would weigh the risks and benefits and do a thorough analysis across-the-board. If my having Epilepsy made getting vaccine more advisable, I would only do so under the advice of my Neurologist. You mentioned getting the Moderna vaccine. If you will indulge them, here are 3 questions for you: 1: Have you ever heard of a successful mix and match regarding the vaccines and the subsequent boosters? 2: Based on your experience with the Moderna vaccine, was that better taken on an empty stomach or with food? 3: While I have not heard or read anything either way, can caffeine inhibit the effectiveness of these vaccines?

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      7. I appreciate the questions Ragnar. But I’ve said all I’m going to say on the vaccines. It’s up to you to make whatever decision is right for you and your situation. I hope things work out. Take care.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. Nan, if you want to take the chance and gamble with your health and safety by taking a new and untested vaccine, that is your decision to make. Despite the b.s. being spewed by the mainstream media, a multitude of stories that speak to injuries and deaths are not being fairly or accurately reported. People who say that injuries and deaths have not happened are 1: Getting only half of the story, as indicated by their disbelief about reports of adverse events, 2: Wilfully lying and smearing people in order to silence them and 3: Not doing their own homework because of intellectual laziness, simple as that.

    Brookingslib, the argument “my body, my choice” should apply to every medically-related matter. I oppose abortion and vaccine mandates, however, I believe in the right of people to their individual bodily autonomy.

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  9. Brookingslib and Nan, if either of you know anybody who has Epilepsy, to pick a certain health condition, would you blame the person for refusing the vaccines because of the issue of potential neurological damage?

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  10. Brookingslib, viruses like Malaria come from nature. Covid-19 was created in a lab. NIH funding of labs in Wuhan is what facilitated the creation of this pandemic. Anthony Fauci has as much blood on his hands as the Chinese Communist Party.

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      1. From a google search for “Is malaria a virus or bacteria?”:

        A: Malaria is not caused by a virus or bacteria. Malaria is caused by a parasite known as Plasmodium, which is normally spread through infected mosquitoes. A mosquito takes a blood meal from an infected human, taking in Plasmodia which are in the blood.

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      2. Brookingslib, if you get your information from Anthony Fauci, the FDA, the CDC, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, Vox, et cetera, that explains a lot.

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      3. Brookingslib, I get my information from all over the place. The FDA, the CDC, the NCBI, people who tell their stories in their own words. None of my information comes from Alex Jones.

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    1. Malaria is a disease caused by a protozoan parasite. Coronavirus is a virus that can cause disease (such as COVID-19). Polio is a disease caused by a virus.

      Water affects the human body, but is neither a virus nor a disease. Biologists make these distinctions for good reason. You have been spouting ignorant nonsense.

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  11. Brookingslib and Nan, I mean no offense with this comment, however, you are both way off-base. As harsh as it seems, if someone takes advice about how to deal with a potentially deadly pandemic from politicians instead of virologists or people with MD behind their name, they deserve their ultimate fate.

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  12. Jill Dennison, it is not society’s business as to the individual vaccination status of each person. We live in a Constitutional Republic, not a gestapo state.

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  13. Brookingslib, in case you are not familiar with it, there is this concept called Doctor-patient confidentiality. All of these venues that hold people hostage by refusing business to them based on vaccine status is a bad business plan. It also is an invasion of privacy when people who one does not know insists on having what is by definition private medical information, both as a condition of employment, which violates HIPAA laws and also just because it is nobody’s business otherwise.

    Jill Dennison, I am not saying anything about you specifically, however, the “my body, my choice” crowd has no right to decide arbitrarily when that argument is and is not valid. You might want to read the Nuremberg Code and the U.S. Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights.

    Nan, for as smart as you seem to be, you clearly seem to think that government can manage our health better than we can. That is indicated by the pro-vaccine mandate mindset.

    David Prosser, everyone who takes the vaccines will be eligible for the Darwin Awards ultimately. How? By taking a vaccine that will unleash spike proteins, which are toxic, by the way, all over their bodies and ultimately dying in the most idiotic of ways.

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    1. As usual, you make assumptions based on your own personal opinion and perspective. As many have said before, if you don’t want the vaccine … DON’T TAKE IT! But don’t try to tell others what THEY should or should not do. And BTW, your constant and irritating repetition of this SAME ISSUE is not going to change anyone’s mind, so please rag … GET. A. LIFE.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Nan, a lot of these vaccine pushers are probably getting their funding from Bill Gates, George Soros, Jeff Bezos, big pharma and many other people.

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      2. Again. You’re spreading lies and disinformation. You bring Soros, Gates, and Bezos into this? Friend, you’re so outside the mainstream and the scary thing is that you do not know it. Pretty soon you will tell me that Alex Jones and Joe Rogan are your go-to guys for vaccine information. This is getting beyond embarrassing. Move on, please. We know how you feel about the subject. I’ve had enough

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  14. Nan, Brookingslib, Jill Dennison, David Prosser, Sherri Marzick and Taurusingemini, If the issue of long-term complications was rare, maybe I would be less skeptical about it. Every mixed message I get, be it get the vaccine, be it the vaccines don’t work, get 2 shots, get 3 shots, is hard to take seriously if stories are not consistent. To be fair, if someone had an MD who said 1 or 2 shots would be enough, maybe the risk would be worth it. As I mentioned, my having Epilepsy causes me to not want to risk exposure to Covid-19 or to the vaccines. If each of you got and tolerated the various vaccines quite well, I am happy for you. To run the risk of playing the equivalent of Russian Roulette with my health or very life is just not worth it if death or permanent injury is an end result.

    I have heard stories about favorable and not so favorable experiences with Novavax, Moderna, Astrazeneca, Pfizer and the Johnson&Johnson vaccine. For the record, I am not saying that there are no side-effects and that the vaccines have not helped many people. The premise is about the potential of being given a vaccine in error. Example: Someone can take the Moderna and yet they should have gotten the Pfizer. Some people may have gotten the Astrazeneca vaccine when they would have been better off getting the Johnson&Johnson. Who knows?

    By the way, I don’t get or solicit any medical advice from people like Alex Jones. I am not getting and will not take medical advice from people whose knowledge about medicine is 0% wither.

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  15. Nan, Brookingslib, Jill Dennison, David Prosser, Sherri Marzick and Taurusingemini, If the issue of long-term complications was rare, maybe I would be less skeptical about it. Every mixed message I get, be it get the vaccine, be it the vaccines don’t work, get 2 shots, get 3 shots, is hard to take seriously if stories are not consistent. To be fair, if someone had an MD who said 1 or 2 shots would be enough, maybe the risk would be worth it. As I mentioned, my having Epilepsy causes me to not want to risk exposure to Covid-19 or to the vaccines. If each of you got and tolerated the various vaccines quite well, I am happy for you. To run the risk of playing the equivalent of Russian Roulette with my health or very life is just not worth it if death or permanent injury is an end result.

    I have heard stories about favorable and not so favorable experiences with Novavax, Moderna, Astrazeneca, Pfizer and the Johnson&Johnson vaccine. For the record, I am not saying that there are no side-effects and that the vaccines have not helped many people. The premise is about the potential of being given a vaccine in error. Example: Someone can take the Moderna and yet they should have gotten the Pfizer. Some people may have gotten the Astrazeneca vaccine when they would have been better off getting the Johnson&Johnson. Who knows?

    By the way, I don’t get or solicit any medical advice from people like Alex Jones. I am not getting and will not take medical advice from people whose knowledge about medicine is 0% either.

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  16. Brookingslib, Nan, Jill Dennison, David Prosser, Sherri Marzick and Taurusingemini, Joe Rogan got the Ivermectin and that seems to have been of benefit to him. N-acetylcysteine, Budesonide, Hydroxychloriquine, Artemisinin, Ivermectin and Quercetin have been very effective for prevention of and treatment of Covid-19. Try looking up the data and do some due dilligence. Rashid Buttar, Joseph Mercola, Sherri Tenpenny, Stella Immanuel, Pierre Kory, Robert W. Malone, Peter A. McCullough, Vladimir Zelenko and Simone Gold, legitimate and licensed medical experts, have been more honest and more solution-oriented than Anthony Fauci. Anthony Fauci screwing around with Gain-Of-Function research enabled this pandemic. While your at it, look at the National Library of Medicine’s website.

    People who get medical advice from news anchors who have no medical degrees or politicians who have no medical degrees are ultimately getting the fates that they asked for. I am not saying that they deserve that, however, if that is the end result, that is no different than people who won the Darwin Awards.

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      1. Sherri Tenpenny claimed that vaccines can cause people to be magnetized and talked of people putting keys on their foreheads on the internet. I won’t even mention some of the other crackpot BS she’s claimed about Covid. If this is the type of person who you seem to think is an expert, you have absolutely NO credibility with me. I’m no expert, but I know who is respectable in their field, and who isn’t. And Ms Tenpenny is certifiably bonkers. I’m done with this subject Ragnar. Move on

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      2. Brookingslib, if I took a vaccine that had as a side-effect a headache that lasted a few days but nothing else was wrong otherwise, I might be willing to risk it. Novavax, Astarzeneca, Johnson&Johnson, Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines respectively have all had adverse effects, neurological and otherwise.

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      1. Neil Rickert, if the media stopped the libel, slander and smears of people who report ill-effects, that would also help. Being more concerned with a network’s ratings than with the truth is a way to lose credibility.

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      2. What libel? What smears? I’m not seeing it.

        For your information, I had a bad reaction from the vaccine. My kidney function is reduced. But, unlike you, I am not whining about it. I still support the vaccination program, though I have chosen to not receive a booster shot.

        We need to work together, not to start needless fights.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. I agree. For the record, I had honestly been willing to consider getting the Pfizer vaccine. What changed that thinking was multiple horror stories about injuries and deaths for people who got that one.

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  17. Brookingslib, I know a lot about the risks of any virus, disease, medical condition, whatever. Maybe I was careless with my language regarding what constitutes a virus vs a disease. Lies and disinformation? In case you did not get the memo, I am not a political hack, unlike many people.

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  18. Brookingslib, there is a difference between being an anti-vaxxer, as some people are talked as being and being vaccine hesitant. I had high hopes for all of them. The issue is in the fact that it seems that everyone, Anthony Fauci, the FDA, the CDC and our elected representatives are lying to us.

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    1. I don’t think it’s lying. I think it’s because Covid was and is a novel virus. The data keeps changing. Fauci is a scientist who analyzes data and tries to come to conclusions based on that data. We’ve got what, two years worth of data now? I think you should give him a break.

      Liked by 2 people

    1. Again, you’d rather tout the conspiracy theory quacks like Ms Tenpenny and others over people who are widely considered experts and competent scientists. I don’t get why you do this. We are still learning about his virus, as I’ve said to you many times.

      Liked by 1 person

  19. Brookingslib, I have heard reports of favorable experiences with each of the vaccines I have heard stories of adverse, even fatal reactions, to the vaccines. The Johnson&Johnson and the Pfizer I was at the very least open to until some adverse stories came out about them. The Moderna and Astrazeneca are those of which I am highly skeptical.

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    1. I just got my 2nd Moderna booster yesterday. I’ve never had any issues. Ever. That doesn’t mean that vaccines are a 100% guarantee that you won’t have a bad reaction. Do you know anything that is 100% Ragnar? I certainly don’t.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Not only that, people take chances with just about everything in life … and hope for the best. Each individual has to decide FOR THEMSELVES based on whatever research they choose to accept. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. But bottom line … it always comes down to one’s personal decision.

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      2. Brookingslib, I am not saying that vaccines are 100% bad. I just believe that people should be free to make their own choices. Even if the vaccines are safe and effective, that does not make it right or justifiable to mandate them. The next time I hear or read the phrase “My body, my choice,” I will throw that back into the faces of people who make that argument about the legality of abortion but not applying it to anything else.

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  20. Brookingslib, David Prosser, Jill Dennison and Nan, some people may refuse vaccines out of a sense of stubbornness and some people may have legitimate health issues that contraindicate certain vaccines. If someone claims to value the right to bodily autonomy, that person cannot then claim to support vaccine mandates and be credible. The same people bashing on “anti-vaxxers” are the same people saying “my body my choice.” Pathetic.

    Unless contraindicated by underlying medical conditions, Budesonide, Hydroxychloriquine, Ivermectin, Quercetin, N-Acetylcysteine and Artemisinin are beneficial for immune health in general and preventing Covid-19 in particular.

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      1. Nan, I could provide some links for him on the ineffectiveness of Hydroxy, Ivermectin, as stated in recent studies. But why bother? It wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference. After all, this is a Fauci/Bill Gates virus, right? LOL

        Liked by 2 people

  21. Brookingslib, David Prosser, Nan, Jill Dennison, Taurusingemini, Deteremineddespitewp and Neil Rickert, My problem with the vaccines would be the long-term effects of the shots. We also have the double-standard in the argument “my body, my choice” and how pro-abortion and pro-choice people want to apply o the abortion issue but claim that it is inapplicable to other medical matters. The people responsible for spreading misinformation and disinformation, e.g. people who are not reporting accurately the health risks of the vaccines, should be held accountable for the injuries and deaths they are causing.

    The vaccines never went through a phase 2 or 3 trial before being distributed en masse to the public. Being rushed under Emergency Use Authorization is not any different than playin Russian Roulette without any bullets.Unless and until they have been fully FDA-approved and thoroughly tested to determine safety factors, I am not going to waste my time bowing to the demands of people that I take it.

    How effective is the vaccine against the new strains coming out? What is the effective lifespan of the current vaccine? How safe is the vaccine? Since this is a manmade virus, how are we supposed to know if vaccines are safe, let along knowing if it prevents the virus?

    It seems to me that a bunch of people have a variety of reasons and all the shaming in the world won’t change anyone’s mind. Unless and until an MD encourages it and all risks are reduced, if not eliminated, why trust pharmaceutical manufacturers who are run by people who have no medical degrees?

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  22. Brookingslib, David Prosser, Nan, Jill Dennison, Taurusingemini, Deteremineddespitewp and Neil Rickert, My problem with the vaccines would be the long-term effects of the shots. We also have the double-standard in the argument “my body, my choice” and how pro-abortion and pro-choice people want to apply to the abortion issue but claim that it is inapplicable to other medical matters. The people responsible for spreading misinformation and disinformation, e.g. people who are not reporting accurately the health risks of the vaccines, should be held accountable for the injuries and deaths they are causing.

    The vaccines never went through a phase 2 or 3 trial before being distributed en masse to the public. Being rushed under Emergency Use Authorization is not any different than playin Russian Roulette without any bullets.Unless and until they have been fully FDA-approved and thoroughly tested to determine safety factors, I am not going to waste my time bowing to the demands of people that I take it.

    How effective is the vaccine against the new strains coming out? What is the effective lifespan of the current vaccine? How safe is the vaccine? Since this is a manmade virus, how are we supposed to know if vaccines are safe, let along knowing if it prevents the virus?

    It seems to me that a bunch of people have a variety of reasons and all the shaming in the world won’t change anyone’s mind. Unless and until an MD encourages it and all risks are reduced, if not eliminated, why trust pharmaceutical manufacturers who are run by people who have no medical degrees?

    I think both sides of the argument are wrong. Should you get vaccinated? Only if you want to. Should you force people to get vaccinated? No. Education and information over coercion. Coercive tactics won’t work on anybody. That will only result in blowback.

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    1. “All” risks reduced? Right now, billions around the world have taken the shots. To my knowledge, the % who’ve had major setbacks are very low. Do you know something that I don’t? It sounds to me that you want it 99.99999% safe. I do not believe any vaccine has that kind of safety. Your expectations are out of whack.
      Again, most of the people you always quote or use as your references have questionable reputations in the medical field. You do as you want friend, but you’re obviously obsessed about it. We’ve gone over this time and time again. I hope you’re able to stay safe, regardless.
      Oh, by the way, the my body my choice people? How in any way do them being pregnant, or deciding to terminate it, affect public health? How does it affect you? The answer is: it doesn’t. You not getting vaxxed, or others who are especially immunocompromised, do affect public health. They fill up hospitals, which has created enormous stress on the medical system. I hold those who chose not to do so personally accountable for that.

      Liked by 2 people

  23. Brookingslib, if people want all aspect of medicine and medical procedures to be taxpayer-funded, including abortion, that makes it the business of the taxpayers. In case you did not get the memo, we still have a $20, 000, 000, 000, 000.00+ level of debt. Without increased taxes on the rich or dramatic spending cuts across-the-board, maybe both, how exactly can we pay for all of the free stuff that people seem to believe they are entitled to?

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    1. Rag … you should widen your circle of knowledge and consider the MANY things the government pays for before you start zeroing in on any one procedure.

      And that “free stuff” generally goes to the people MOST IN NEED … not the average citizen. But the Republican FABLE is that it’s just going to the “lazy-assed” people who don’t want to work. BTW, do YOU receive any federal funds???

      Liked by 2 people

    2. Free stuff. You call yourself a libertarian, but quite frankly most of your talking points are right out of the GOP playbook. Surely you signed over your ‘free stuff’ check from Covid relief, right?

      Liked by 2 people

  24. Brookingslib, Covid relief stimulus checks are paid for with my tax dollars. Technically that does not count as free stuff. I am not saying anything about you, however, it is hypocritical on both sides for people to say, “my body, my choice” on one matter of bodily autonomy but not another.

    Nan, try reading both the Nuremberg Code and the U.S. Constitution. Neither of them gives the government authority to impose vaccine mandates. Unlike a lot of people, I don’t have a significant fear of needles. What my biggest fear is, something that cannot be undone, would be taking the vaccines and suffering permanent neurological injury or worse. Due to my having Epilepsy, I am not interested in risking exposure to the virus, even if mortality risk is very low for some people, nor the vaccine if it results in cardiac issues or cerebral hemmorhage as a consequence.

    My immune system is fine. I take all supplements not contraindicated by my having Epilepsy, get adequate sleep, watch my diet, avoid stressful situations whenever and wherever possible and limit all interactions with the public.

    Vaccines usually take years to safely create. We do not know the long-term effects of the covid vaccine. Nor do we know the long-term effects of covid-19. The best thing we can do is try to stay healthy, and avoid anyone who might have had contact with the virus. People that refuse the vaccines don’t need to give an explanation.

    Vaccinated or unvaccinated, people should be free to make their individual choices. If someone got the Malaria vaccine and had no negative side-effects, more power to that person, however, if someone had an adverse reaction to it, even if non-lethal, that should be an indicator that the vaccine may be problematic.

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  25. Brookingslib, if I had been offered the choice and the vaccine manufacturers were being honest, I might be willing to consider the Pfizer or the Johnson&Johnson vaccine. Moderna’s and Astrazeneca’s I was admittedly concerned about because of some disturbing reports of adverse reactions.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Brookingslib, I am not badmouthing Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine or Astrazeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine. So please don’t take my comment to imply as much. The reason I was more skeptical of them is because I have heard and read stories, even seen videos where people explain in their own words bad experiences.

    Nan, unless contraindicated because of underlying medical conditions that make taking them inadvisable to take, N-Acetylcysteine, Budesonide, Artemisinin, Quercetin, Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine have been very effective as prophylactic treatments and preventatives for Covid-19. News networks that spread lies, misinformation and disinformation on the subject have no credibility.

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      1. Brookingslib, my first inclination is to hear people’s stories in their own words or whose family members speak for them. Example #1: If someone took one of the Covid vaccines and only had a headache for a couple of days that was easily managed with over-the-counter painkillers but nothing worse and said person was generally fine otherwise, I would believe what that person said. Assuming that it went badly, I would also believe that to be possible. Example #2: If someone took the vaccines and went into cardiac arrest, as verified by a physician, I would also take that seriously. By the way, I have never taken any medical advice from people without MD behind their name and never plan to.

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      2. I’m sorry but there’s a huge difference between the New England Journal of Medicine, the AMA, Johns Hopkins University, and the Mayo Clinic-versus some of the quacks you’ve listed as your go-to “experts.” I’m perplexed that you don’t see that.

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      3. I do not discount folks who’ve had serious negative reactions from the vaccines. My point to you is that the statistics show these cases are very rare. Almost negligible. And that’s the case with most vaccines. None of them are 100%.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Brookingslib, this is true. If you will indulge a few hypothetical scenarios, here they are: 1: Someone takes the Moderna and tolerates it very well but gets the Astrazeneca for the booster, 2: Someone gets the Novavax and gets the Johnson&Johnson for the booster and 3: Somebody got the Pfizer but got the Moderna for the subsequent booster. Even though it is a mix and match, what in your opinion could be a logical explanation for some people tolerating a combination but not having that same tolerance for a vaccine and a subsequent booster from the same vaccine?

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      5. That, my friend, is a question for someone far more capable than myself. For me, I’ve gotten Moderna all the way through. Ironically, after two years of this pandemic, I finally succumbed to Covid a couple of weeks ago. This was after I’d gotten my second booster 11 prior to having my first symptoms. It took me about 5-7 days before I started feeling better. The truth is, it wasn’t much worse than a bad cold/bronchitis. I still have a bit of a cough and some lower energy.
        Bottom line? I’m glad I was fully vaxxed. Who knows how sick I could have gotten without it? But this is an unpredictable disease. We still do not know the ramifications of it all. My hope is that some of the newer vaccines they’re working on will get to the heart of Covid. Which means, prevent the infection from spreading in the first place. Right now there’s a trial going on for a nasal spray that looks promising. Since much of it is spread through the nasal cavity, an effective nasal spray that would prevent you from even getting it in the first place would be a game-changer, in my view. I hope that one is successful. Do you agree?

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      6. That’s the 64k question. My wife never did get it. We distanced the best we could but it’s still amazing she didn’t get it from me. I’ve been going mask-less for the most part. Went out to dinner a few times etc…I have no idea. But thanks Nan. I suppose it was inevitable. I wish I hadn’t got it though. Who knows if there will be any long-term effects. That’s the thing.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Brookingslib, I do agree. For the record, I am not badmouthing any of the vaccines. I just believe that the therapeutics should be just as available to the public and let each person make his or her own decisions from there. Example: If someone got the Pfizer vaccine for the initial shot but wanted to revert to a therapeutic afterward, such as Budesonide, assuming no health problems prohibiting its use, I would be fine with that personally.

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      8. Brookingslib, I am pro-vaccine generally speaking. Having said that, if I read a story of a bad experience, I believe that it should be taken seriously by everyone.

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      9. Hmmm … I think you’ve made a similar (or the same!) comment numerous times already. Perhaps you have a memory problem? In any event, we get it! You don’t need to keep repeating yourself!

        Liked by 2 people

      10. Nan, if Jeff has a problem with me commenting, he can ask me to stop on specific posts or on all of them. You don’t have a say in the matter unless it is on your blog.

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      11. That is true. It IS his blog. But I happen to be a visitor who enjoys reading the conversations resulting from his posts. However, when a person continues to comment the same thing over and over and over again (with only slight variations), I guess I can’t help myself!

        Sorry Jeff, if I’ve overstepped my bounds.

        Liked by 1 person

      12. Nan, you can block me if you want on your blog and Jeff can do the same. You can also tell me to shut up and stop wasting your time, assuming that you want to be rude about it. Jeff can also do so.

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      13. On a related matter, another study was released today debunking that Ivermectin is an adequate treatment for Covid. Yet, hundreds of quack doctors are still prescribing it, including one here in my small town. I’d love to know how many of these so-called doctors have contributed to the deaths of so many naive and misinformed individuals throughout the country. I bet you it’s in the thousands. Completely despicable. I wish there was a way to charge them with negligent homicide. I would add the former disgraced president to that list, by the way.

        Liked by 2 people

  27. Brookingslib, I am not saying that vaccines never work. I just believe that given the option I would rather let my immune system deal with most things, even things that may otherwise be lethal. Assuming that I got a bad case of Malaria, I would rather up my intake of every immune boosting supplement not contraindicated by my having Epilepsy and just wait it out. To employ a Darwinian concept, I am inclined to have a survival of the fittest way of thinking.

    Nan, unless someone’s immune system had been severely compromised, I see no reason to immediately jump on the vaccine bandwagon. I also must note how the people that didn’t want to get the shot didn’t bash the people who did. And listen to the people who got the shot. They are spewing all sorts of nonsense about how safe and effective these so-called vaccines are that they don’t consider all possible risks.

    Jill Dennison, I have no fear of needles, just disdain for the fact that major pharmaceutical companies are immune from any form of legal liability if something bad happens due to some vaccines being given in error. I was open to the possibility of the Pfizer vaccine, however, some stories I have heard and read cause me to worry.

    Neil Rickert, If I am wrong about the risks of the vaccines, I can change my mind. People who took the vaccines who were wrong cannot undo their jabs. So I am not going to risk playing the medical equivalent of Russian Roulette with my health or life to satisfy the paranoia of other people.

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  28. Brookingslib, Nan Jill Dennison and Neil Rickert, I prefer to hear and read all sides of the story, be it related to vaccines or any other issue of controversy and make up my own mind. I just want the truth about the matter, not media spin that makes people who report bad experiences to be liars.

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  29. Brookingslib and Nan, I know that every person is different, that one vaccine may work for one person and not another. Having said that, I had almost been willing to consider the Pfizer vaccine or the Johnson&Johnson vaccine. Moderna’s, Pfizer’s and the one offered by Novavax I had hope for but also significant skepticism of.

    Try getting out of the confirmation-bias bubble for awhile and see how that works.

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  30. Brookingslib and Nan, people can justify a government’s controversial policies and actions for only so long until they see a pattern of abuse of power. Even if the vaccines, be they for Covid or other viral outbreak have a significant level of success as preventatives, mandating them at the federal level would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution in more ways than just one.

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    1. So, diseases like SmallPox, Measles, and Whooping Cough, which were all pretty much eradicated because of mandated vaccines when we were children, violated the Constitution? When George Washington mandated his troops take the vaccine, would that have been a violation?
      Btw, those diseases I’ve mentioned? I wouldn’t be surprised if they started to make a comeback, based in large part on people like yourself who seem to have a problem with ‘government mandates’ taking away your ‘freedom.’
      At some point, friend, doesn’t living in a society with others require at least some degree of duty on everyone’s part to help with keeping that society healthy? From keeping people from dying unnecessarily? Do you not have some responsibility here?
      The more I hear from libertarians like yourself, I’m convinced that your ideology represents a danger to the well-being of my fellow citizens. I would hope that you might rethink some of your positions. Key word: HOPE

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Brookingslib, I was open to the Pfizer vaccine, maybe the Johnson&Johnson vaccine. The Moderna and Astrazeneca vaccine I had been on-the-fence about for a multitude of reasons. Perhaps I am being unrealistic, however, I wish some genetic testing could be done so as to determine the best vaccine for the right person, maybe even a thorough medical history to see what vaccines are off-the-table and on-the-table. I will concede to having been careless with my disease vs. virus talking point. Having said that, regardless of diagnosis, can a virus or a disease, regardless of lethality, be equally transmissible?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Not sure about that Ragnar. What I’ve said is that the real game-changer will be a vaccine that prevents transmissibility. I know they’re working on a nasal spray that would do just that. I hope we see that day soon.

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      3. Brookingslib, anybody who has been bribed with enough money can classify any medicine as safe and effective. The issue is where the proof is to be found.

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  31. Brookingslib, if someone got a case of Malaria and was relatively youthful and very healthy in all other regards, would it surprise you if that person who took all possible immune boosting supplements not contraindicated by a preexisting medical condition had a higher rate of survival than a person whose state of health at the time of viral infection was already questionable? If someone caught on to having it early on, could that person effectively manage, even defeat it without having outside intervention?

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      1. From what I can gather, there was a vaccine finally approved in 2021 that has shown to be effective but it’s not foolproof. Since it’s a parasite, it’s been really hard to find effective vaccines. From what I’ve read, while there is no cure, you can treat it effectively with the right drug combination. I think what you’re trying to get at is that using supplements outside of say, prescribed medication, might be just as effective? I, personally, would be wary of using those supplements. At least not without some hard data and evidence to support using them.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Brookingslib, if you will indulge my curiosities, here are 3 questions for you: 1: Even if unheard of, what would be a reasonable explanation for a successful mix and match of Moderna’s vaccine for the initial dose, however, Pfizer, to pick an exammple, was used for the second dose? 2: Even though it varies from person to person, have you ever heard stories of successful mixing and matching regarding a An initial dose of one Covid vaccine, Moderna as the example and Pfizer being the booster as a supplement? 3: Assuming no underlying health conditions otherwise, could a person’s tolerance to a Covid vaccine be the result of an already robust and healthy immune system?

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      3. 1. They are very similar vaccines-both using MRNA technology 2. I have heard of mixing and matching. A friend of mine did it and he was fine. 3. That’s very possible

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  32. Jill Dennison, if someone had no significant comorbidities and had a robust immune system, I would not be surprised if their survival rate after infection was higher than someone whose immune system was already in bad shape. All this talk about trusting the science from people who try to change the definition of what science is defies logic.

    Neil Rickert, if news of this pandemic had not been repeated again and again by the media, I would have been doubtful that there was even a pandemic. I am not saying that it is impossible, however, there seems to be a significant marketing campaign for it.

    Nan, I mentioned that I believe that there is a lot of short-sighted thinking related to the virus and the vaccines. I am not interested in trying to influence people’s thinking on the matter. What I want, even if it comes from both sides of this issue, is plain simple honesty.

    Brookingslib, I will acknowledge being careless with my language about disease vs. viruses, however, both can result in significant health problems if not diagnosed early on.

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    1. “Jill Dennison, if someone had no significant comorbidities and had a robust immune system, I would not be surprised if their survival rate after infection was higher than someone whose immune system was already in bad shape.”

      Yes, that’s what the science says. Yet you seem to be questioning the science.

      “Neil Rickert, if news of this pandemic had not been repeated again and again by the media, I would have been doubtful that there was even a pandemic.”

      You seem to be saying that you have a poor ability to judge these things. This does not surprise me, because so many of your posts have presented poor judgement.

      “What I want, even if it comes from both sides of this issue, is plain simple honesty.”

      I think we have been honest with you. But perhaps you are not a good judge of that.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Neil Rickert, I did not dispute your being honest or any other people who I have discussed this issue with. Having said that, Anthony Fauci’s funding of Gain-Of-Function research with NIH money in Wuhan, China makes him just as guilty of starting this pandemic as the Chinese Communist Party.

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      2. Ragnar, your accusation is way off base. I did a little research of my own on this matter and quite frankly, this is above my pay grade. The Washington Post gave Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton two pinocchios for making this claim. The truth is, the science on this isn’t exactly clear-cut. There is a debate within the scientific community about what exactly constitutes Gain-of-Function research. The NIH continues to stand by its claim that the research done by Eco-Health did not constitute Gain-of-Function research. Some virologists say it did. Some say it did not. Here is the link to the article if you choose to review it:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/10/29/repeated-claim-that-fauci-lied-congress-about-gain-of-function-research/

        For you to say Fauci is as guilty as China is beyond the pale. There is no evidence of this. It’s a complex issue, as I’ve said before, and it appears to me it was more of two Senators trying like hell to embarrass Fauci and somehow blame him for the virus in the first place. But, people like yourself, and others, will simply jump at the chance to pounce. When two Senators, Cruz and Cotton, chronic liars and propagandists, by the way, are leading the charge, I have to question their motives. Until I see something more definitive on this, I think its BS. My opinion.

        Liked by 2 people

      3. So you’re accusing a man who’s served 6 presidents and is one of the most renowned scientists around the world of deliberately starting a pandemic? I’m sorry but that’s just ridiculous and conspiratorial. Very unfortunate that you’ve bought in to this stuff

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Brookingslib, can you logically explain how NIH money made its way to Wuhan? Can you logically explain how this pandemic did not exist until it was unleashed upon the world on Donald Trump’s watch? Can you logically explain why Anthony Fauci kept changing definitions of Gain-Of-Function research on the NIH website?

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Most folks believe that it began in a China wet market. Sounds plausible to me. If it was a lab created virus, no way to I think Fauci or NIH or anyone else from this country was responsible. Except for Trump administration of course, who politicized the whole thing and botched the response. China bears much of the responsibility for lack of transparency and failure to let the world know fast enough. We can also blame Trump for firing the pandemic response team in 2018-to save money. Sorry, I’m not going the blame Fauci route. You, friend, can do that all you want.

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      6. Brookingslib, I understand, however, with the utmost respect, every licensed medical expert I named would disagree with you. They get the facts. You are getting flip-flop answers from Anthony Fauci and I am surprised that you can believe a word he says.

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      7. Fauci made mistakes at the outset of this pandemic. Why? Because it was novel. Pretty basic don’t you think? But as data came in, the CDC and others went by what they saw. Unfortunately, like I said, politicization ruined everything. Even today, only about 66% of the public has been vaccinated, and many of them have not been boosted. Gee, I wonder where we’d be if that number was closer to 90%?

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Overall, these vaccines have been amazingly successful, keeping people out of the hospital and alive. Which, btw, is what they are supposed to do. Do you know any vaccine that is 100% perfect?
        What we need is a vaccine that will help eliminate transmission in the first place. I’ve heard that there are trials going on for that kind of vaccine.
        Ragnar, you continue to question these vaccines. You also continue to blame Fauci for the pandemic. Isn’t it time for you to move on? Btw, if GOP takes over Congress you can bet there will be hearings on Fauci daily/weekly/hourly. There will be calls to jail him, as there already are. He’s also received numerous death threats to the point where his family needs a security detail. Are you ok with this? Only in a post Trump America would we have health professionals/scientists afraid to walk out of their houses in the morning. And people who follow conspiracy theories are fueling this kind of stuff. Shameful. Completely shameful.

        Liked by 2 people

      9. Brookingslib, if Anthony Fauci was so concerned about it, he should have spoken up about closing off travel to and from China. Given the fact that it did not happen, as well as the funding of Gain-Of-Function research with NIH money, that makes him just as guilty. Here are videos for you: 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXKQmVrf0k, 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpNp0EVak4w, 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuA9hfR3jFo, 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AcwcdSVvVc, 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-hOITdR-5I, 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCtn-7teXk, 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi2yd_VY2TM, 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7_bKweDVk Regarding your inquiry as to if I know of a vaccine that is 100% perfect, I do not, however, I know when someone keeps changing stories and cannot give simple straight answers.

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      10. Brookingslib, I have no doubt that the vaccines have helped many people, at least on the surface. I also have a hard time taking seriously the safe and effective rhetoric if the manufacturers are hiding data from the public.

        Like

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